[00:00:00] Lisa Woolfork: Hello, stitchers. Welcome to stitch, please. The official podcast of black women's stitch, the sewing group, where black lives matter. I'm your host Lisa wool fork. I'm a fourth generation sewing enthusiast with more than 20 years of sewing experience. I am looking forward to today's conversation. So sit back, relax, and get ready to get your stitch together.
[00:00:56] Lisa Woolfork: Hello everybody. And welcome to the stitch please [00:01:00] podcast. We are the official podcast of black women's stitch, the sewing group where black lives matter. And I am so happy to be here. And I say this every episode, I have never thought an episode and say, I guess I'm alright to be here, but today I'm super happy because we are going to demystify bra making for you.
[00:01:17] Lisa Woolfork: Um, I've looked through and asked questions, um, about what people were thinking about sewing bras. And so we have a really special episode today with two of my very, very good friends from black women's stitch. Um, we are joined by Dewan Coburn, who is the black women's stitch bra sewing expert, and Naomi P Johnson, the heart and soul of DC fr tails, who is a.
[00:01:39] Lisa Woolfork: Bra sewist um, she just sewed her first bra and I represent the kind of middle position I've made about four, four or five bras, a couple bra lets and I thought it would be a nice opportunity for us to sit down and have a conversation about sewing bras so that you all could listen to us and maybe have some of your [00:02:00] own fears addressed.
[00:02:01] Lisa Woolfork: So welcome to the program, Dewan and Naomi, thank you for being here.
[00:02:07] Naomi: Oh, thank you for having me.
[00:02:09] Lisa Woolfork: All right. So the first step, what, tell us a bit about your bra sewing experience. And I wanna start with Naomi because you have the least and you had a pretty satisfying experience sewing your bra most recently.
[00:02:23] Lisa Woolfork: So can you tell us about what that was like for you?
[00:02:27] Naomi: Um, sure. I had never made a bra before until about two and a half weeks ago. I, um, I decided to participate in the black women's stitch bra. So along because I had purchased, uh, bra patterns back in August for, um, the Instagram, you know, so long activity for August and I thought, oh, I'll give it a try.
[00:02:55] Naomi: So I purchased the bra pattern. I looked at purchasing all of [00:03:00] the materials and got completely overwhelmed and never did anything with it. In fact, I forgot that I had purchased the pattern. So when we got started with the so long, I went to purchase the pattern and got up to the point of checkout. And it was like, oh no, you already had that girl.
[00:03:19] Naomi: You don't need to buy it. And so I was really happy to not have to spend money on the pattern in that moment, because it was at kind of the early stages of, um, stay at home orders. Uh, so I was happy to not have to spend money on the pattern. uh, Dewan walked us through all of the parts and pieces that we needed and referred us to some places where we could get kits.
[00:03:45] Naomi: So I picked one out, it came, I had everything I needed. Um, and I started to fiddle around with making sure that I was gonna have a good fit because each bra pattern [00:04:00] maker has a different, a different sizing scheme. So I figured out what seemed like my most reasonable fit. I, um, pinned the pattern piece together.
[00:04:13] Naomi: It looked like it was gonna be good. So I cut everything out and went to it. Um, with skills that I already have from years and years of sewing and years of teaching sewing, I was able to construct a bra. It fits you. Can't tell me shit.
[00:04:34] Lisa Woolfork: Exactly. Um, You like, you literally
[00:04:38] Naomi: cannot tell me shit because I made a bra.
[00:04:41] Naomi: So there have been several days of social isolation where I'm just sitting in my house with a full on underwear under wire bra, because I made it myself. And like, this is absolutely no bra time. Um, except I made it so bitch, I'm wearing it. Um, [00:05:00] making this bra was my most satisfying, so ever hands down, like every scene was less than eight inches.
[00:05:09] Naomi: It came together so quickly. I, I did it basically in an afternoon, like in three or four hours. And I think I paused at one point because I was a little bit confused about a step. And so I did a lot of research on the internet. Um, I used YouTube university. Aggressively to figure out what I was confused about.
[00:05:37] Naomi: And then I had a bra and I was, you know, putting the titties in my stories because I made it,
[00:05:46] Lisa Woolfork: they looked amazing.
[00:05:52] Lisa Woolfork: So why, um, thank you so much, Naomi, and I, I think one of the things I wanted to talk about as we move through the episode are, I guess we could even divide it [00:06:00] into like three categories. If one of, I think one of the things I hear a lot from people, at least when I ask folks about why they did not. So bra was a sense of being overwhelmed and people are overwhelmed by the stuff that's required to make a bra.
[00:06:14] Lisa Woolfork: The idea that a bra is a structural garment with wires and hooks and the sizing issue. So I'm hoping we can get to all three of those today. So Dewan, can you tell me about.
[00:06:32] Lisa Woolfork: Okay, Dewan, can you tell me about your, um, approach to like what, what sewing your most recent bra was like? Cause you were sewing like right along with us. Um, and what we're talking about, we just had a casual sew along y'all, you know, um, we're recording this and we're all still in the midst of social isolation required by, um, different COVID restrictions.
[00:06:54] Lisa Woolfork: Um, but one of the things that has brought people together is using zoom and other [00:07:00] means to communicate. So we just get on a zoom on Thursday and we just Kiki and so, or Kiki and not. So, um, and part of this one has been part of the bro sewing has been a lot of key keying, a lot of cocktails and a lot of laugh and a lot of drinking and a lot of sewing and Dewan has done some really great instruction for us.
[00:07:22] Lisa Woolfork: So what. Brought you to bra sewing Dewan. Like what, like what made you decide to, to start? And when did you start making brass? Cuz I know you took a class a while back.
[00:07:33] Dewan: I took a class, so there's this wonderful woman. Her name is T ACTT Jones and she was a part of the American sewing Guild. About 10 years ago, she offered a class.
[00:07:48] Dewan: Um, and the, I can't think of the name of the person who did the class, but I was intrigued just the thought of being able to make my [00:08:00] own bra the details in the sewing gamy basically, and the idea that I could customize and make matching panties and just, I could go all out, you know, with my own creativity.
[00:08:17] Dewan: So I had a class, it was a one day. it started on, uh, I shouldn't say one day it was two days. It was a Friday evening where she did an introduction to bra making. And she talked about all of the materials and, um, we took measurements. And then on the following Saturday, we came in and we stayed all day.
[00:08:40] Dewan: And at the end of the day, we had a bra and I was hooked at that point. That was 10 years ago. So nowadays 10 years later we have, um, so many more patterns and things that we can use versus 10 [00:09:00] years ago that I I'm, I, I love.
[00:09:05] Lisa Woolfork: And I think this, this idea of one of the things I love about sewing in general is the transformative properties of sewing that you can start with, like a pile of material and end up with a duvet cover or, or a garment or a pair underwear or something like that. And I think that the bra is no exception.
[00:09:25] Lisa Woolfork: It's almost like magic. And it, to me, it just feels like, wait a minute, this was just some mesh and some really thin wires and, and like what this is. Yeah. So I think one of the things that I find so surprising and delightful about bra making.
[00:09:46] Lisa Woolfork: Is that we end up, we start with these, like what looks like little tiny scraps and it turns out to be something really fantastic. Um, and that's something that I find really exciting about the [00:10:00] process. So how about, do you, could you estimate Dwan about how many brass you've made in the last 10 years?
[00:10:04] Lisa Woolfork: Could you guesstimate? Um, I'm
[00:10:08] Dewan: going to guess on maybe 25. So for me, I started out, I made the first bra, which of course I loved it. And then, um, it was, I loved the process of making the room, but the broad pattern itself was, it was 10 years ago. So it was a little, uh, matronly. And so I wanted to look into other patterns and there wasn't that much out.
[00:10:40] Dewan: And that's what I was trying to, uh, say before there weren't that many patterns available, but now so many other patterns have come about that I made my first bra years ago and I kinda got a little discouraged because I was trying to figure out all the, all the things that go along with the bra. [00:11:00] And so in the past, I would say five years, I started back sewing them again, and I've made about 25 of them since then. So at that I was hooked
[00:11:15] Lisa Woolfork: really is pretty fantastic. And I wanna kind of talk specifically about that way, that folks tend to think that you need a certain type of either skill. Or a certain type of machine in order to sew a bra. Um, they're like, well, I, maybe I need to get a surgery or I need an overlock or I need, I don't know, a blind hammer.
[00:11:37] Lisa Woolfork: I just made that up. But , um, it's like, you feel like you need like special equipment. Right. Um, and it turns out that you really only need like a couple of things. Um, Naomi, can you tell us about that? What does, I think maybe what we talked about earlier was that, um, a brave beginner can sew a bra. What does a brave beginner need? What does anyone need to sew [00:12:00] a bra in terms of sewing skills?
[00:12:03] Naomi: Um, the only thing that I feel like you need to sew a bra is, you know, a willingness to try, you need a sewing machine and a sharp pair of scissors or a rotary cutter and a rotary mat. And if you have those things and you've purchased a kit, you have everything that you need to sell bra.
[00:12:25] Naomi: As long as you can sell an accurate scene, you will be fine to make a bra like you can. Absolutely.
[00:12:32] Dewan: And the sewing machine doesn't
[00:12:33] Dewan: have to be anything special. All it needs to be able to do is straight stitch and a zigzag
[00:12:38] Dewan: stitch
[00:12:40] Dewan: and a zigzag stitch. It doesn't even need a, I know a lot of people like to use the three steps stitch it's not required.
[00:12:47] Dewan: Um, but if you have just a basic, a basic zigzag stitch, then you can make a bra. And you will be delighted and tickled with yourself and you will show [00:13:00] everybody, you will be fleshing everybody up your shirt, um, because
[00:13:05] Lisa Woolfork: you made your bra . That was one of my big, like my big goals. I was like, man, if I ever learn to make a bra, I'm gonna start wearing 'em on the outside of my clothes.
[00:13:17] Naomi: listen, I, this is basically where I am now. Like Madonna circa like late eighties, early nineties, like here's
[00:13:28] Lisa Woolfork: my bra. It is amazing. And I too am amazing because I made it bitch. I made it.
[00:13:37] Dewan: There's something about sewing them that just boosts your confidence. So it's, it's a great.
[00:13:45] Lisa Woolfork: It's just great. It, it does.
[00:13:46] Lisa Woolfork: And I think that's a beautiful way to put it to one. It boosts your confidence. Well, let's get into the bra pattern itself. One of the things that I found, so. Both, uh, reassuring as well as a bit [00:14:00] intimidating was is that a bra is not that many pieces. Mm-hmm it's about six pieces. So y'all listen and correct me if I'm wrong.
[00:14:06] Lisa Woolfork: Mm-hmm for the air, the Emerald, the black beauty bra. This is the bra y'all hope I know you've been listening, um, to some of the promos and hopefully seen them on Instagram. Um, we've got a great collaboration with four excellent companies. Um, and we'll talk about them in a second. When we get into the materials for the bra, but for the pattern itself, it's pretty much just six pieces.
[00:14:26] Lisa Woolfork: You have the upper, you have a cup that's divided into two pieces. You have an upper cup and the lower cup. You have the center cradle. You have the, um, the band, the band is made up of three pieces. Is that right? One, two for the cup. And the band is one, two, and you have a power bar. You have two pieces for the cup.
[00:14:46] Lisa Woolfork: You have the power bar for the side of the cup. Then you have your band, which is two pieces or three pieces. You have that middle cradle part, and then you have the two side. So the band,
[00:14:57] Dewan: the band could be all one piece. The [00:15:00] band can be three pieces. And so there will be, um, the cradle or the bridge, and there's a frame.
[00:15:08] Dewan: And then there's the back part of the band. And it's literally just three things and it's done.
[00:15:19] Lisa Woolfork: And you were saying Dewan, that if you, once you get good at making bras, you can make one in an hour and a half. Is that true? Is that I think that's what you said. You're, that's what
[00:15:30] Dewan: teacher said. That's exactly what my teacher said. Once you, once you start the process and you get it, you can definitely make a bra pretty quickly, but you just have to, you know, it takes practice
[00:15:40] Lisa Woolfork: like, so there's
[00:15:42] Dewan: no reason you couldn't sit down with a couple of hours or so, and actually make a bra from beginning to.
[00:15:51] Lisa Woolfork: and, and I think that this is what's so surprising to me. And maybe it's because bras are such an important part of women's lives, you know, that we kind of, we, you [00:16:00] start with like a training bra and then, you know, for those of us who have been, you know, trained to wear bras, not everybody has been or chooses to, but for those of us who do, it's kind of like, it's, it's, it's pretty basic.
[00:16:13] Lisa Woolfork: It's kind of like brushing your teeth. It's kind of like, it's, it's an important part of getting dressed. It's one of those, what they call foundation garments, right? Foundation garments, being brass panties, um, spanks or girdles slips, all these things that women wear underneath their. Um, and you know, in some ways they're really private garments and, you know, they're helping you when you made them, except when you made them.
[00:16:39] Lisa Woolfork: Of course, then you want everybody to see them. Um, and they're also expensive. Yes. I think that if, you know, if you wanna bra, if you wanna bra to fit you, um, I was mentioning this on one of my stories a couple weeks ago that there's this little shop in Manhattan that I would go to. Um, and I had never spent that much money on bras before.
[00:16:58] Lisa Woolfork: I think, you know, again, to [00:17:00] me, you know, would spend in between 75 and a hundred dollars on a bra a lot. And, but now that I look at it and I'm like, oh my gosh, this is a partial band bra. It's not even a full band. This is a partial band bra. And let me look over and see how this is stitched together. Mine is way prettier, you know?
[00:17:16] Lisa Woolfork: And so like, these are the things you don't anticipate. Being able to do in your, in your sewing life, but it's kind of the point, right? The reason we sow is because we are like either dissatisfied with, or just want to do for our be creative. Exactly, exactly. And the idea of doing that with, um, a bra is something that lots of folks don't think about.
[00:17:43] Lisa Woolfork: So maybe so one thing that I love is that the bra is six pieces, maybe seven pieces, depending on how big you're cut, but essentially it's a cradle and a band that wrap around your body and. Two cups that you sit inside of that [00:18:00] kind of cradle frame that you've made. And that's pretty much the that's pretty much it now.
[00:18:06] Lisa Woolfork: I, I think someone, I think, and I also love that the sewing doesn't have to be, you don't have to be like the world's best sewist you have to be able to. So a quarter inch scene, which, um, for any quilters who might be listening, I know we know full well that there's some people who cannot sew a quarter inch scene.
[00:18:25] Lisa Woolfork: If you've ever done a round Robin quilt where everyone supposed to make a block at their house, and then you all get together and sew your blocks together, it is always somebody. And maybe more than once, somebody who like has a D. Definition of what a quarter inch theme is than you do. And so, ha so for me, the only thing that I would do that I do when I'm sewing my bra, when I wanna be sure is that I will take off my regular presser foot and put on my quarter inch foot for those times when I have to have a straight seam, like in the side part of the band or whatever, but then I popped that off and [00:19:00] put the regular foot on because everything else is gonna be zigzag stitch, you know?
[00:19:04] Lisa Woolfork: Yeah. So it's really like a lot of fun. And so I just wanted to encourage folks just to understand that structurally a bra. Is six pieces of cutout materials. And like Naomi was saying, if you have a rotary cutter, you know, I tend to print mine on. I know y'all know that I really like printing my patterns on, um, freezer paper, because I can just iron them down to the materials and I can rotary cut it really fast.
[00:19:32] Lisa Woolfork: I don't have to pin anything or put weights down, but even if you're pinning and using scissors, and it's not gonna take you that long to cut out six pieces and they're not even that big, you know, so that's something that I really think that people should recognize is that the pieces of material you need to make a bra are not that many.
[00:19:52] Lisa Woolfork: And it's not beyond your ability.
[00:19:54] Dewan: And you can start using some of your scraps sometimes just to play around with it. You can use your [00:20:00] scraps
[00:20:00] Lisa Woolfork: and, and come up with a bra. You can, you can, there are
[00:20:03] Dewan: some base materials that you have to have, but you can also incorporate your scraps into your cups.
[00:20:10] Lisa Woolfork: That's yeah, that's right.
[00:20:12] Lisa Woolfork: That's right. Because when you're making a sample one or you're making a, a trial one, it doesn't have to be as pretty as. As it's going to be, because I know that. And you can also, um, I guess let's turn to the materials that you, that people are saying that it's really hard to figure out what you need to make that like some folks, you know, trying to understand about mesh and power mesh and broad lining and all of that.
[00:20:36] Lisa Woolfork: and something that I think that we've done, um, through all throughout our Hangouts is that we have discovered the beauty of kits. Um, and the kits are pretty amazing because, um, as I was saying earlier, we're working with, um, three companies who are gonna donate kits for our prizes, which will be announced probably if the episodes, this episode comes out on a Wednesday will probably announce, [00:21:00] um, the winners on Thursday or Friday.
[00:21:02] Lisa Woolfork: Um, um, bra builders has really great kits. Emerald Aaron has great kits and stitch love studios has great kits and they've all agreed to donate one kit, um, as a prize for this pretty exciting bra episode. So why do you think, well, let's talk about what comes in a bra kit. Dwan. Do you wanna tell us what comes in a typical bra naked kit?
[00:21:23] Lisa Woolfork: So, um,
[00:21:25] Dewan: I I'll, I can speak on the kids. I can specifically speak on the kids to bra builders. Now, most kids have at least have the, um, The band fabric, which is power mesh. And then there's going to be your straps or your strapping is what it's called to make your straps, your rings, your sliders, your, um, under band elastic and your upper band elastic.
[00:21:55] Dewan: And then there's your back closure. And so your, [00:22:00] uh, cup material can be a couple of different things, but your kits will have everything you need to make your bra. And most kids have everything except the under wire. So you should be able to order a kit in order a wire and make a bra
[00:22:15] Dewan: and you wouldn't need anything else.
[00:22:17] Dewan: Mm-hmm
[00:22:21] Lisa Woolfork: and one of the great things that I like, I'm sorry, go ahead, Naomi. I got my
[00:22:26] Naomi: kit from, uh, from Emerald Aaron, even though I was making the Marlborough bra, there is, they are very similar patterns. So I got my kit from Emerald Aaron, and it included everything, um, included the under wire. Or the bra.
[00:22:45] Lisa Woolfork: And I think that that is a nice way to get over the, um, the sourcing.
[00:22:50] Lisa Woolfork: If, if, if someone feels like they wanna make a bra and they seem to be facing a mountain of obstacles, right? Like, oh my goodness, I've gotta make [00:23:00] the, I gotta get the, the, I don't know how to put the pattern together. And then like, what is PCO elastic? And I need three A's for this size and five A's for that and this closure.
[00:23:12] Lisa Woolfork: And do I use this number of hook and all of that can feel like just a series of steps people might not wanna take. But I think I'm hoping that by listening to this, y'all realize that this bra is six pieces and you can get, do one, stop shopping to get everything you need to make one and still have a teeny bit extra.
[00:23:30] Lisa Woolfork: If you wanted to use it as a panty panel or something like. So I really do like kids for that. And Dewan, you even had a system for when you were, um, you were buying them like you could measure. I think, I think it's because you're an accountant, but you had, like, you had this, like my bra strap is this measurement distance from the front of my shoulder to the back of my back.
[00:23:52] Lisa Woolfork: And I can get this many straps out of the block. And I was like, you know what, that's just way too much math for Lisa. So I'm not gonna never [00:24:00] make a bra ever. If all this math is involved, that's, this is fair enough for me, another place that I would source
[00:24:04] Dewan: materials before. Um, I was not buying kids and I would go to so sassy.
[00:24:11] Dewan: So sassy dot back home. Yes. And so you can get, uh, things to make a bra, for instance, um, I may wanna buy, um, strapping. I may wanna buy five yards of it. So I basically figured out how what's the length I would need for one bra and just divide it up. , you know, the amount of yards by the length that I needed to figure out how many bras I could make out of it.
[00:24:37] Dewan: So it was just a way for me to make sure I kept my little inventory going.
[00:24:44] Lisa Woolfork: Yeah, I'm gonna have to just say, I think I'm just gonna keep buying kids for the rest of my life because I'm pretty sure I'm not gonna be like, oh, I just measured around my body. And because of my band length, I have calculated. No, I'm [00:25:00] not. I know myself. I am just gonna say, you know what, I'll just let other people do that math.
[00:25:05] Lisa Woolfork: And
[00:25:07] Dewan: I would say bra builders definitely also offers great kids. And, um, she has a variety of colors. She dyes them before sending them out. And so
[00:25:18] Lisa Woolfork: when you go on the site,
[00:25:20] Dewan: you'll see everything there and you have a choice of your different laces and whatever color you want. So. I would highly recommend
[00:25:29] Lisa Woolfork: them.
[00:25:29] Lisa Woolfork: Yeah, I do. I do like bra builders. I like that. They're um, it seems like they're last beginner kit, but they're, they're really good beginner kits. And I love the monthly kits that they do. And I like Al Erin kits because you know, of course, Emerald Aaron designed the black beauty bra and, um, and that's something that, you know, and also they're also really good with, um, communication, cuz I know when I was trying to pick my underwear for the black beauty bra and I was talking with, um, her with Erin, like just [00:26:00] via the Etsy chat and I was like, This is what my full bus measures.
[00:26:04] Lisa Woolfork: And she's like, okay, so you're gonna be a bigger size, like in maybe this person's pattern, but for mine, I don't add these numbers like they do. So yours is gonna be a little smaller and, you know, and then she was like, well, here's, I'll send you a fitting pack. So that's another thing that, you know, you should decide if you want to, if you know the, I think that the, there are fitting issues when it comes to making a bra.
[00:26:28] Lisa Woolfork: So let's, let's transition to that, like some of the fitting challenges and how we can overcome them. And we will talk about those fitting challenges and how to overcome them. After the break, you're listening to this stitch please podcast, and we are talking about ways to demystify bra making so that you too can make a bra.
[00:26:46] Lisa Woolfork: Please stay tuned. We're gonna have some discount codes coming up in the episode from the folks who are generously supporting us. We've got discounts from bra builders. Emerald Aaron, as well as stitch love studios, in [00:27:00] addition to some of the great prizes that they are offering on the Instagram page. So stay tuned, hang in there with us and we will continue to help you get your stitch together.
[00:27:20] Lisa Woolfork: The stitch police podcast is really growing. We have recently hit 30,000 downloads. That is a huge deal for a small podcast that is totally independently funded and unsponsored, and just a labor of love. Um, I wanna thank you for listening to the podcast and ask a favor. If you are listening to this podcast on a medium.
[00:27:43] Lisa Woolfork: That allows you to rate it or review it, for example, apple podcasts or iTunes. Please do. So if you are enjoying the podcast, if you could drop me a five star rating, if you, um, have something to say about the podcast, um, and you wanted to include that a [00:28:00] couple sentences in the review box of apple makes a really big difference in how the podcast is evaluated by apple, how it becomes more visible.
[00:28:10] Lisa Woolfork: It really is a way to kind of lean into the algorithm that helps to rank podcasts. Um, so if you had time to do that, to drop a little line in the review feature of the podcast, that would be really appreciated and it would help us to grow even further and faster.
[00:28:33] Lisa Woolfork: Welcome back to the stitch please podcast. We're talking today about bra making and trying to demystify it to convince y'all that yes, you can sew a bra, um, and also stay tuned. We have discount codes coming up for the folks that I mentioned earlier, and I hope that you have registered for the contests.
[00:28:52] Lisa Woolfork: We've got some giveaways with patterns from Emerald Aaron, um, bra kits from bra builders, bra kits from also Emerald [00:29:00] Aaron, as well as stitch love studios. Who's also giving a pattern and custom dyed power mesh so that you can have a bra in your skin color from designs by Tosh. So now we're gonna transition as us head in the previous segment to talk about some of the fitting issues with bra.
[00:29:15] Lisa Woolfork: And so, um, we're gonna have that conversation coming up right now. Here it is. One of the things you want, I believe is an underwire. That's going to fit you and fit your body comfortably Dwan. I know, you know, a lot about that. Can you talk about why the underwire is so important for a bra and how we can as home sew as figure that out?
[00:29:38] Lisa Woolfork: So, so the under
[00:29:39] Dewan: wire is what offers the support in your bra, and you need your under wire to basically be flush against your skin and it should go around your breast root. So if you lift your breast up, there's, uh, it's basically where your breast
[00:29:58] Lisa Woolfork: tissue
[00:29:58] Dewan: attaches [00:30:00] to your body or the, your wall, the wall of your chest.
[00:30:04] Dewan: So if you get an under wire and you push it, flush against there, and you wanna make sure that, that it. Along the cavity wall, but that you have no breast tissue, like it's not laying on top of the breast it's outside of the breast. And one of the things that I on Erin does is she offers these fit kits for under wires.
[00:30:27] Dewan: So if you measure yourself and you think you maybe fit a size 42 wire, then she has a kit where you can get the 40, the 42 and the 44 for like $3. I think it is us dollars. And that's a great way for you to order it, test it and see which one actually fits you before you. So
[00:30:51] Naomi: bra yeah, that's what I did. I, and that's, that's in fact what I got from her back in, back during August, I [00:31:00] got the fit kit and I, I can't believe I forgot.
[00:31:03] Naomi: I bought the pattern because I knew I had the fit kit and had found the, um, the right under wire size.
[00:31:11] Lisa Woolfork: Um, and that was like,
[00:31:13] Naomi: that was easy. It, it is $3. And right now I know what under wire size works for me. Um, and so the sky
[00:31:25] Lisa Woolfork: is the limit. Really? Yeah. You wanna
[00:31:28] Dewan: take the under wire and find out which PA, which size on your pattern fits that under wire, because then you are assured to have a band that actually fits mm-hmm your body.
[00:31:42] Dewan: And then you go from there fitting your cups. If you need to go larger
[00:31:46] Lisa Woolfork: in your cups and, and I, then you would address it. And one of the questions that I know I've heard from folks, and they're like, oh, I would love to make a bra, but I just don't think I can find one that's going to fit me. And so [00:32:00] can, can we talk a bit about, like, I know, I think that I wear.
[00:32:03] Lisa Woolfork: I'm not, you know, I think that I have moderate size breasts. I don't know. And I spend a lot of time comparing my breast sizes to other peoples I'm like that phase of my life is over. That was what eighth grade. Um, everyone's concerned about that, but I think, I think I make for the Emerald Erin, I believe I make a 34 D I believe 34 D or double D.
[00:32:25] Lisa Woolfork: And the bra size that I wear, like in Victoria's secret, I believe was like a 36 C. That's what I normally, I think that's what I was, that's what I was wearing back when I used to buy bras in my past.
[00:32:41] Lisa Woolfork: And I've seen folks who have like fuller cups, um, than I do have been able to make a bra successfully. Um, do, how do you think we can help people think about ways to overcome either that anxiety about sizing or offer some practical solutions that can help [00:33:00] with that?
[00:33:02] Dewan: So for me, one, one thing, one great thing is when we order our bra patterns, they're they, aren't just one size.
[00:33:10] Dewan: You literally get every size in the pattern. So if you are willing to take some measurements, you have a great start as to where to start in the pattern with your size. And if it's off a little bit, you can always make the larger size mm-hmm that's one thing.
[00:33:29] Lisa Woolfork: If you find that, um,
[00:33:31] Dewan: the cuts are what can be a challenge if you are very busty and so you may have to grade your cut pattern and just enlarge it.
[00:33:42] Dewan: But the great thing about bar making is your cups are generally two or three pattern pieces. And so you can, um, you can adjust it. So I have a book, it's a digital book that I bought and, um, [00:34:00]
[00:34:00] Lisa Woolfork: It is
[00:34:00] Dewan: called how to grade a bra and brief it's
[00:34:04] Lisa Woolfork: by Lori
[00:34:05] Dewan: van Johnson, J O N S S O N. And I'm sure Lisa will, um, tag it in into show
[00:34:12] Lisa Woolfork: notes.
[00:34:13] Lisa Woolfork: And so for those of you who may, may your cut.
[00:34:19] Dewan: May not be in the size range and the pattern, you can always grade it up and it'll still fit into the broadband of the pattern
[00:34:26] Lisa Woolfork: that you have. And that's a really great feeling, right. You know, it's like, oh, and, and it helps you feel like, okay, I can get this around.
[00:34:34] Lisa Woolfork: I can get it to close. I can add this straps. And now I, I just need to adjust the cups. And there's so many different types of bra cups that I, right. That I've been able to see, like the, the Bette that's one I'm really interested in, which is like a short Demi cup. I think the Emerald Aaron bra is a, is it a Demi cup or some type of, it's not like the same full coverage cup.[00:35:00]
[00:35:00] Lisa Woolfork: um, but I don't know all the different bra style cups. I just know about the Bette and the Demi. And it was something else, I guess, a full, but there's, there's ways that you can kind of decide or choose certain cups that will also help with that. So I'm excited. I've not tried that book that you described Dewan, but I will indeed put it in the show notes cause I totally want to check it out.
[00:35:22] Lisa Woolfork: Um, for the sewing of the there's, some of the magic that happens for me with bra making is to when it goes from looking like just a pile of tiny rags to to being like an actual, an actual bra that a person could put on. And there's so many little tweaks and things that you can do, um, with the bra pattern.
[00:35:43] Lisa Woolfork: So like I think the first one I did, I tend to prefer a two hook bra band to close the bra in the back. Um, but some people prefer three and I believe. The Emerald Aaron might come with the two, but you can make your, so basically you, if you wanna cut the back [00:36:00] band, the back closures of your bra, if you wanna make that bigger, you can just cut it a little bit taller and you can make it bigger to fit in and put the hooks and eyes in the back.
[00:36:11] Lisa Woolfork: But if you also want it to be a little shorter, you could just cut it a little. More narrow and just put the hooks and eyes on that way. Um, you know what, one of the things that I thought was very intimidating about bra making, it was making the straps. I'm telling you, I, I harassed Dwan to no end about this last year, Naomi, seriously, this woman was like, I'm sure Duan was thinking, I don't know who gave that bitch a PhD because she is a moron because I was like, Dwan.
[00:36:44] Lisa Woolfork: I, you know what D I just saw this place and they sell a bunch of straps and I'm just gonna buy 10 straps. She was like, Lisa, they're not gonna match what you're making. It's not hard to make a bra strap. I'm like, well, Dewan, it's not hard for you. I said, [00:37:00] Lisa,
[00:37:00] Dewan: when you get ready to make it, just call me, I'll walk you through it.
[00:37:03] Dewan: It literally takes five minutes. And she was like, yeah. Okay.
[00:37:09] Lisa Woolfork: I did not believe her in any way. I was like, yeah, it takes you five minutes because you are an accountant and you keep an inventory of all your raw materials
[00:37:21] Lisa Woolfork: but for the most simple process in making the,
[00:37:28] Naomi: making the strap, wasn't the problem that I was having when I had to go to YouTube. The problem that I was having was I don't, Lacey bras are itchy to me, so I didn't get a bra. That was, um, that had, I didn't get a kit that had lace mm-hmm I got a kit. Um, that was all duplex, which presents another problem for me, but that's a whole other issue.
[00:37:53] Naomi: Mm-hmm and I was trying to figure out what now, how do I get a clean finish? Okay. Because if, if [00:38:00] I'm gonna, if I'm gonna make the bra, it's gonna be pretty on the outside and the inside. And so I was sitting at the computer at YouTube and, um, shout out to list shows mm-hmm on YouTube because her tutorials are in depth and easy to understand mm-hmm and like in plain, plain language, she's not using all of this jargon and mm-hmm, making it even more.
[00:38:28] Naomi: I. Then it seems, um, I literally watched the same step in her. Um, her Braso along tutorial, like 14 times and then was like, ah, light bulb. I got it. And I know what to do. It was just making sure that when I attached my upper cup to the lower cup, that I was gonna get that clean scene, finish that the rest of the, um, the rest of the group was getting because they were using [00:39:00] the lace.
[00:39:00] Naomi: And once I got that, I was all like, I was walking around, like I was standing in my mirror with my three part cup sew together and I was holding it up to my breast, like is like, oh, I got one cup I'm stand like literally standing in the mirror. No under wire, no band or anything. I'm like, I got a cup.
[00:39:23] Naomi: That's gonna cover my ti
[00:39:27] Lisa Woolfork: look out world a good time.
[00:39:29] Naomi: Like watch out world. Cause don't let me find to be Dazz little on,
[00:39:35] Lisa Woolfork: on EBA.
[00:39:39] Naomi: my principal is gonna say, um, Naomi, you may not. Fact teach
[00:39:46] Lisa Woolfork: second graders and I'm gonna be like, but why
[00:39:52] Naomi: not?
[00:39:54] Lisa Woolfork: Bras are part of life. And I made this one. Didn't I tell you[00:40:00]
[00:40:01] Lisa Woolfork: how many times
[00:40:01] Naomi: I gotta tell you. I made it. Everybody gets to see it.
[00:40:05] Lisa Woolfork: And I think that this, I love this kind of reminder and I'll be sure to link to, um, to Liz. So, and Liz so's and the show notes, um, is that there are parts of the broad that are tricky. It's just kind of it's it's it is similar to basically when you're learning to do basic sewing, you know, learning when the, so is something right size together versus, you know, sewing a facing.
[00:40:25] Lisa Woolfork: And I think that one of the things for me that I was like, I don't know, I couldn't wrap my head around. I'm like, well, so why do I need this three as elastic around this, this upper elastic? And why do I need the, the wider elastic for the bottom? And then once I figured that out, I was like, well, once you do it, yes.
[00:40:41] Lisa Woolfork: And so like, essentially what we're talking about here y'all is the PCO elastic that you get is this. Beautiful decorative elastic. One end of it is, um, is straight and the other is scalloped. And when you, this was a part that I kept messing up until I stopped messing it up. Right? [00:41:00] I, you, you make sure that the PCO, the PCO scallops are pointing inward on the right side of your bra and you stitch it down closest to the straight edge.
[00:41:14] Lisa Woolfork: Then it basically all you're doing in sewing terms like apparel, sewing is making a, facing you using the elastic as a facing. And so you stitch it, you flip it down and what you, you flip it inside. And what you've done is you've covered any raw edge that you have cut for your bra, and you've made a decorative edge.
[00:41:37] Lisa Woolfork: That's also gonna be comfortable against your skin when you put it on. And it's really just, it's just a facing. And I'm like, oh wait, why am I freaking out? It's just a facing. You know? Yep. And so I was like, wait a minute. I know how to make facings I'm I can make facings that's okay. I can do that. Right.
[00:41:55] Lisa Woolfork: Yeah. And so that has been pretty great. That has been really, really great that, and, [00:42:00] and that part, I find really satisfying. The only that's a good to too.
[00:42:05] Naomi: Yeah. The only other thing is with working with elastic, which is the same thing, always when, um, when working with elastic is to make sure you're not stretching it in an inappropriate spot.
[00:42:17] Naomi: So you don't get that windy, um, kind Lety edge, but like, it is
[00:42:23] Lisa Woolfork: so, so
[00:42:25] Naomi: easy. And it's so mm-hmm, because I cannot overstate how satisfying making bra making this bra is that, um, that first bra was, I like I'm hooked, I'm
[00:42:39] Lisa Woolfork: hooked. Mm-hmm
[00:42:41] Naomi: I am not like I, well, maybe by a specialty bra, if there is. Some occasion where I need to wear a, a bra that has a deep V basically down to my belly button.
[00:42:54] Naomi: I don't know what occasion that would be, but that's essentially
[00:42:58] Lisa Woolfork: the next year's fr [00:43:00] tail next year's fr tail. I think you would need that next year's tails. Next year's
[00:43:04] Naomi: tails. I'm gonna be wearing like leggings and a t-shirt and I'm definitely gonna drink at pro tails next year, cuz I didn't drink at pro tails this year because I was overwhelmed and basically crying the whole time.
[00:43:18] Naomi: But next year I know I'm just wearing leggins and flip flops and
[00:43:23] Lisa Woolfork: drink. Maybe a bra, maybe a bra you made, I
[00:43:26] Naomi: might actually wear just under.
[00:43:29] Lisa Woolfork: Honestly,
[00:43:33] Lisa Woolfork: let's see. Let's, let's transition really quickly to talk about bra lets and I know y'all know that my, we will continue our conversation about the bra lets in just a few minutes, I wanted to share the discount codes for the folks who are collaborating with us today. We have discount codes that have been generously given to us by stitch love studio by bra builders and Emerald Aaron.
[00:43:57] Lisa Woolfork: So tomorrow or Friday, I think we're gonna [00:44:00] have the drawing for the free bra patterns and bra kits as well as the power net, um, power mesh from designs by Tosh. But even if you are not a winner. Of those particular prizes you are winning by listening to the stitch please podcast because, um, they have given us discount codes for their other products.
[00:44:21] Lisa Woolfork: So please check them out. And the discount code y'all is stitch, please. So go ahead, check out those folks, their links to their, um, websites are in the show notes and using the stitch, please discount code will help you get your stitch together to get started making some bras and bra lets of your own. So now we're gonna come back to the program and we're going to talk about bra lets here it is.
[00:44:46] Lisa Woolfork: Let's let's let's transition really quickly to talk about bra lets and I know y'all know that my running joke about bra lets is that his bra, let me down bra let your titties down. Like I have yet to find previously to this one, I recently [00:45:00] made a bralet that actually. Held up my breasts. Like I have always thought that bra lets were like, like, why do I even like, if I'm, if I'm not gonna wear bra, let me just not wear a bra, but I know Naomi, you said that you like soft brass.
[00:45:15] Lisa Woolfork: Can you talk a little bit more about what a soft bra does for you rather than something more structured? So
[00:45:21] Naomi: I, I like soft bras only because I don't like for my breast to be at my waistline
[00:45:28] Lisa Woolfork: um,
[00:45:32] Lisa Woolfork: um,
[00:45:33] Naomi: I, I don't own however, many, um, many soft bras that fit well. Um, for a period of time, I used to work at a really, um, a popular high end, um, athletic wear store. And so as a, as a, you know, as a function of my employment, I had to wear the products. And so I have several
[00:45:59] Lisa Woolfork: [00:46:00] of.
[00:46:01] Naomi: The, like the mid medium impact, um, soft bras from them.
[00:46:05] Naomi: And the, I like the, the thickness of the fabric for them. And I like the thickness of the band, but they don't like, they, like, I wouldn't say they are, they fit well, they just mm-hmm. keep my, keep my breasts from literally being at my waist. Um, when I'm lounging around the house, if I were gonna actually be a person who ran this would not be inappropriate.
[00:46:29] Naomi: Like I'm wearing one now, cuz it's, you know, uh, another day in, um, stay at home orders. Um, but I'm wearing it now and it's literally just to keep the, so that I don't have the weight of my breast just hanging, cuz that's not comfortable for me. Um, But it's because it's the, the thickness of the fabric and the band that's keeping me like lifted.
[00:46:56] Naomi: There's no separation. Mm-hmm , there is no like no [00:47:00] impact control. So if I were gonna go for a run, I would need to wear something different, um, to like do any real physical activity. Um, and so I'm looking forward to making, um, a bralet. I have a couple of bralet patterns, one from, um, one from Emerald, Aaron and I have one from Madeline and I have one from, um, Sophie Hines that I'm looking forward to trying, cuz I like I'm ambitious.
[00:47:28] Naomi: I keep buying the, the, the patterns to make these things. And then I'm like, yeah, nothing I make is gonna be any better than, you know, the things that I have that I have left over from. When I worked at that store, so it's fine. I won't worry about it. I supported a small business buying the patterns and that's good enough.
[00:47:51] Naomi: Oh, honey. I made this straw now I'm making all the bras. They're gonna be great because they actually fit my body. I'm so excited. [00:48:00]
[00:48:00] Lisa Woolfork: Mm-hmm and, and Dwan you, what's your, what are your thoughts on bras? I would say anybody who
[00:48:07] Dewan: is nervous about making a bra, but wanted kind of just, uh, slowly get into it, that they would make a bralet and that way they don't have to, um, tackle the under wire portion, but there's no real difference from making, um, a underwear bra.
[00:48:27] Dewan: And making a bralet except for the under wire,
[00:48:30] Lisa Woolfork: right. That's right under. So I would say it ain't that hard. It's not, it's not hard, but some people,
[00:48:37] Dewan: some people who are nervous if they're like, they don't wanna tackle it. If they just make a brat, then they will, they will make the bra with the under wire because it's not difficult.
[00:48:47] Lisa Woolfork: And that is actually a perfect, that's what my success will be. And that's a perfect transition because I am a bralet skeptic and it was not until, um, one of the sponsors for our giveaway. Um, [00:49:00] stitch love studios told me about, they have two bralet patterns. I bought a kit from them because I really like red.
[00:49:08] Lisa Woolfork: And so, um, I bought the kit and I thought I was gonna make my Amod errand with their kit. But the, but the, um, The findings and stuff were a little too small. And it turns out that the kit that I bought was actually better for a bralet. And so I was like, oh, okay. But this one, they have two, they have one called the Lily, which has a really pre pretty shear front.
[00:49:28] Lisa Woolfork: And then they have one, um, called the Daisy, I guess maybe all their bras made they after flowers. I'm not sure, but they have the one that I made. I'm telling you, y'all the Daisy bralet from stitch love. Studios has totally converted me to the possibilities of bralet. And I talked with the designer, um, we chatted on a, on a zoom chat earlier and she was like, okay, I understand your, your thing about bra lets and here's the deal.
[00:49:55] Lisa Woolfork: If you want a bralet to be more supportive, it's going to [00:50:00] be a trade off. You have to either add a closure. And or use stronger mesh as support. Okay. And so I, I wanted to just try a pull over the head because I am on a little, a little bit on the lazy side. I did not wanna add a closure if I did not have to.
[00:50:20] Lisa Woolfork: Um, and so I, I said, let me just go ahead and try it. So I tried the bralet first in an extra large, and then I went down a size because that made it feel a bit more snug and y'all seen it. I mean, I can't not believe it is real. I mean, I could actually put this on and put a t-shirt on or something else like that.
[00:50:42] Lisa Woolfork: And it. It would actually work. I keep looking down at them going, oh my gosh, why are they not on the floor? Um, because this, I can't believe it it's so that's been pretty exciting. So I have been recommending the Daisy, um, the Daisy bralet and again, they're gonna be giving us, [00:51:00] um, a pattern as well as a kit.
[00:51:02] Lisa Woolfork: So if you are winner, you can try the Daisy bralet if you wanted to get started or any of the other things they have on their website. Um, I wanna talk a little bit about finding fabrics that are matching the skin colors of black women. And that gives us a chance to kind of turn to, um, um, Natasha clue and designs by TAs.
[00:51:22] Lisa Woolfork: She's gonna be giving a swatch kit and a half a yard of power mesh. In that color. So say you win a swatch kit. You can remember she sent us these samples. Um, y'all for the stitch, please retreat back in October of 2019. And we had quite a fun time matching all those swatches to us. Remember that like she, all the, the swatches were named after yeah.
[00:51:51] Lisa Woolfork: Foods. And I think when I talked to her the other day, she said she had she's up to 150 colors now of skin colors. Wow. [00:52:00] 150. Um, so that's amazing. I, I cannot wait. And so the bra, the bralet that I made that had, that I had the most success with, which was the size large in the Daisy. I made the outside cups in one of her fabric.
[00:52:16] Lisa Woolfork: And it just looks so nice. It like actually matches my body. And that's something that a lot of black women don't have the experience of in lots of things like, you know, going to get a dress off the rack that has a mesh middle and that mesh middle is the flesh colored crayon color. And it's like, well, that's gonna look ridiculous.
[00:52:37] Lisa Woolfork: Um, or, and so this is something I'm really excited about, about being able to get power mesh in my skin color. So that, and that's, that's one of the reasons that that bra lead has been so exciting for me. It's like, oh my gosh, I can wear this. And it like blend so well. So that's been really great. Yeah. I, I think
[00:52:56] Dewan: every black woman would love to have, uh, their own flesh [00:53:00] tone color.
[00:53:01] Dewan: Fabric to be able to do what they want with it. You
[00:53:04] Lisa Woolfork: know, that's amazing. And I did make two pair of panties out of some of that same hash. And so that's another, I'm like, oh my gosh, I've never had a pair of underwear. They are beautiful. It turned out so 90. They are beautiful. Yeah. I am super, super excited about this.
[00:53:23] Lisa Woolfork: So, um, we're getting close to the, the end of our time, but I wanted to see, do y'all have anything, if someone has been listening to the episode and wants to have a sense of a takeaway, what would, what advice would you give to someone, um, who, for example, Naomi is in your position who has never sold a bra before, but who has excellent sewing skills?
[00:53:45] Lisa Woolfork: Um, what kind of advice would you give for them to kind of get over their hesitation?
[00:53:50] Naomi: I would tell somebody, um, who's never sold a bra, but who is ready to give it a try. To buy a pattern and buy a kit [00:54:00] from Emerald Aaron or bra builders or somebody who sells a kit with everything that you need. And just so it's so easy, it's so simple.
[00:54:10] Naomi: It's so quick. And it's so inexpensive buying a kit is gonna be the same cost as a bra that you would get from target or Victoria's secret or anywhere else. If you, if you have been regularly buying bras at Victoria's secret or at target, or, you know, at Macy's just buy a kit, buy pattern and make the bra, like the worst thing that you have is a bra that doesn't fit you perfectly.
[00:54:41] Naomi: And that's the same thing that happens. Mm-hmm . Um, when you get a bra from, from one of those stores, the store mm-hmm mm-hmm it really is just that
[00:54:53] Lisa Woolfork: simple mm-hmm Dewan. How about you? And I would say it is one of,
[00:54:58] Dewan: I would say it's one of the [00:55:00] most
[00:55:00] Lisa Woolfork: satisfying sewing, um, that you can do. Yeah, I,
[00:55:06] Dewan: so I would, I would say that I would also say
[00:55:09] Lisa Woolfork: YouTube is out there.
[00:55:11] Lisa Woolfork: There's
[00:55:11] Dewan: so many great videos on. and don't let it just, just try it, I guess I would wanna say,
[00:55:18] Lisa Woolfork: just try it. I love it. Yeah. And we are, I'm telling you, I feel the exact same way. I still Marvel that I have bras hanging up in my laundry room right now that are brass that I have actually made. Um, I do wish I could show everybody my bra.
[00:55:33] Lisa Woolfork: I feel like if, when I start to see people again, I'll, they'll be like, hi, how are you? I'm like, well, you know, I made a bra, so I can't be that bad. Let me show you, you know, people will be like, no, ma'am this is church. Can you please put your shirt down? Um, you know, I'm like, I just wanted to show the Lord that I had on a bra that I made.
[00:55:52] Lisa Woolfork: Yes.
[00:55:57] Lisa Woolfork: Oh my gosh. Well thank y'all so much. So can you, oh, can you tell us where [00:56:00] people can find you on the socials? Um, and I'll include that in the show. Show notes, Dwan, where can people find you on, um, social media, like Instagram, if that's where you keep most of your sewing. So my Instagram
[00:56:12] Dewan: handle is so DD is
[00:56:15] Lisa Woolfork: S as in Sam, E
[00:56:17] Dewan: as in everybody, w as in
[00:56:20] Lisa Woolfork: Walter, D
[00:56:21] Dewan: as in David,
[00:56:22] Lisa Woolfork: D as in David 11 0 4.
[00:56:25] Lisa Woolfork: So, DD one. Thank you. And how about you, Naomi? Where can people find you on the socials and
[00:56:32] Naomi: I'm Naomi P Johnson on Instagram. And that links to a Facebook page where I'm not at all active, but it's N a O M I P like Paul, J O H N S O N. Um, on
[00:56:47] Lisa Woolfork: Instagram. Well, I'm gonna be sure to put that in the show notes and y'all are just wonderful.
[00:56:52] Lisa Woolfork: I'm telling y'all you all need to get y'all some friends who can be a blessing to your life. Like these women have been to mine. Um, and [00:57:00] so I'm so grateful to them to just come on the podcast and, and talk about bra making. And I am anticipating that this will not be the last time we're talking about lingerie, because if you think making bras is easy, which I believe it is wait until you make a pair of panties, um, that, that you can make from actual scraps of garments.
[00:57:22] Lisa Woolfork: So I'm pretty sure that we will in the future have an episode on making panties. And then once you get your matching brass, and panties said, you too will be, um, above, above talking to the regular mortals because you make your own lingerie. all right. Y'all, you'll be unstoppable. Exactly. All right. Thanks.
[00:57:43] Lisa Woolfork: Y'all. Okay. Thank you. Thank you.
[00:57:53] Lisa Woolfork: Thank you for joining us for this week's episode of the stitch, please podcast the official podcast of black women's stitch, [00:58:00] the sewing group, where black lives matter. There are a variety of ways that you can support the program and you're doing it right now. By listening to the pro, by listening to the podcast, it does help us grow.
[00:58:13] Lisa Woolfork: Another way to do that is to rate the podcast, review it, subscribe to it. All of these things are ways that you can support the podcast without having to spend any money at all. If you would like to spend some money to support us, there are ways to do that as well. You can make direct donations to our Patreon site for monthly contributions, as well as one time contributions to PayPal cash app or Venmo.
[00:58:38] Lisa Woolfork: And finally, we have another cute, very adorable way for you to support the black women's stitch project. It's a pin, a PI N, and Nam. Lapel pin. That's very cute. It's about two inches wide and one and a half inch tall. And it's of the black women's stitch logo. And that is $15 [00:59:00] with free shipping to the us.
[00:59:02] Lisa Woolfork: And so if you drop $15 in the, a PayPal, Venmo or cash app accounts, and then send me your email. No, not. If you send me your mailing address to my email, either at black women's stitch gmail.com or you send me a direct message on the black women's ditch Instagram page, we will put the pen in the mail to you.
[00:59:26] Lisa Woolfork: Um, again, free shipping, $15 for the pen, and all of this goes to support the black women's stitch project. Thank you again for joining us this week. Come back next week and we will help you get your stitch together.[01:00:00]