Hello stitchers. Welcome to stitch please the official podcast of black women's stitch, the sewing group where black lives matter. I'm your host Lisa Woolfork and I'm a fourth generation sewing enthusiast with more than 20 years of sewing experience. I am looking forward to today's conversation, so sit back, relax and get ready to get your stitch together.
Speaker 2: (00:39)
Custom fabrics is its own world. This has taken the sewing community by storm for more than maybe a decade, I'm guessing. I found out about it maybe five or six years ago, so it might've been going on much longer than that. I'm assuming that it has been, but it started in small ways with things that I'm familiar with like Spoonflower and those kinds of places. But then individual people decided to take up the mantle and produce fabrics that better reflected their own vision. This has been really important for black women and one of them women that we're gonna talk to today who has been doing this work. Queenora Irvin is the proprietor and host of the fabric group called Finer Fabrics By Queenora. And I'm very excited to have had a conversation with her about custom fabrics and to share that with you.
Hurray. I hear you. I can hear you.
You can hear me? Yay.
Oh my gosh, girl. This is what happens when you try to be all fancy. I'm like, Oh yeah, I gotta make sure I set up my, um, my, my, my audio interface and make sure the inputs and the outputs are going in the right direction and I see these little dots and I don't know what's happening. And then you said you could hear me and I was like, oh wait, wait I forgot to the plug microphone into the interface and not into the laptop girl. I mean, honestly.
Oh goodness. I was like, mmm, I don't think it's still supposed to be connecting. And I was just getting ready to find your number. I was like, let me text her.
No, no, no. Yeah, the first time, the first time it didn't go through properly. And then, um, I reloaded it on my end and it said, connected and actually did something. And I was like, girl, after my Cameo was messing up so much last night and too this morning I was like, I do not need another technologic technological..I don't need any More lessons. So like I tried to say, oh, these aren't bad experiences and this is every challenge s a lesson. I'm like, "You know, I've got plenty of lessons..."
Yeah. I just need technology to work.
I want it to work and I could learn later, but now I want it to move forward and do what it's supposed to do so I can get on with my life. So I am so glad that we get a chance to talk today. Thank you so much for taking the time. I know you are very busy and you've got so much going on with your family and work and your backup work. So tell us a little bit about your sewing and your sewing background. Okay. Um, and say your name.
Yeah, that would help. Um, my name is Queenora Irvin. I am a mother to three girls and my husband and I have been married for 10 years now. Um, so I got into sewing after, uh, probably about five, six years ago. Um, I was in between my second and third daughter and like most females, our body changes. We don't know how to dress it in conjunction with the fashion industry, doesn't know how to dress us. Um, so I turned to sewing based off of a Pinterest search. I thought, oh, I saw this dress. Um, it was a blogger, a Tip Stitched.
Oh yeah, yeah.
So she made this dress and I was like, that would work perfect for my body. And then I learned she sold it. So I started following her and that of course led me to the whole wide world of sewing. So, um, we went to Walmart, got a basic sewing machine and I just started sewing for meals, Maxi dresses. I had every maxi dress pattern probably possible. Um, but that's what got me into sewing. And I started sewing for myself and my daughters And from sewing. I mean, you know how it is, you start sewing and it opens up this whole new world that you'd never knew existed. Um, and that's how custom fabric came into play. I thought. Yes, it's like a whole world you didn't know was even there.
It's really amazing. I mean you said so many really great things already. First just to shout out to Tip Stitched. Um, I follow her also on Instagram and I really like having possibility models. That's what I've been calling them. And I didn't invent the term, but this idea that you can look at, you can find for yourself a variety of people that show you what is possible. And so when you see Tip Stitched with this dress and you just happened to like the dress and then you learned that she made it and then you fall down the Pinterest rabbit hole and then now you as whole new world is opened up for you. I think that's really very powerful to talk about how our, how we talk about in many ways, social media can be very negative and how it can make us feel or make some people feel inadequate or feel less than. But there's also ways that it can be very powerful. And that is just one illustration of that. I try very hard to curate my feed, not too, so it looks a certain way. My feed looks like the things I like. I'm not trying to like sell anything, but I do try to, I try to be very careful about who I follow and who I don't. And I'm the, I don't want to follow someone who's going to make me feel like I need to look this way versus looking that way. Um, and when we told me trying to think about like acceptance and radical self love, I think that that's a really important part of it is who you create. Um, who do you include as part of your context? And I think that she's a great example and there's a lot of other really great examples of black women's sewists out there that I really admire and I'm like to just see what they're doing. I'm like, oh, okay. That's cute or [inaudible] that's neat. But that I wouldn't want that for myself, but I could see why it looks good for her, you know? And it pushes us to do other things and Pinterest. Oh my gosh, Pinterest is suck a time suck. I had to take it off my phone at the ticket off my computer. I never go there because I click on Pinterest in the clock moves ahead an hour.
I don't even look at anything, Queenora, I don't even look at anything. I'm just minding my own business. I might accidentally click on Pinterest cause I'm looking for something else and that's the top search result. And the next thing you know it's, it's Tuesday and like how did, how did that happen? Did I eat dinner? So I can't even look at it anymore. I stay away from it entirely. I just can't, I don't have that type of, you know, I know myself and I know that I get easily distracted and I will spend all day on Pinterest thinking that I have done some actual work and it's like looking at stuff on Pinterest, Lisa is not your job. You might be surprised to learn that your job is actually not checking Pinterest and making Pinterest boards.
and making Pinterest boards and trying to learn new crafts and.
Oh yes. Oh, it's so much. So let's talk about the custom sewing, the custom fabric, um, business or the custom fabric industry and the rise of that. I feel like that has been such a great example of, um, a combination of ingenuity and creativity and speaking certain truths to intervene in larger conversations or the lack of conversations that have been having that we've been having in fabric and making more generally. So, um, why don't you talk a little bit about custom fabric and how you got started in that?
Um, so for the custom fabric I got started when I saw someone, um, their fabric, uh, Round was geared towards NFL teams and I was like, "oh my gosh, I would love something like that." So I was very used to the Joanne's, the Hancock, um, type fabric.
I miss Hancock's, I do miss Hancock's.
Pour some out for Hancock's...
and everyone who worked there that was so helpful and actually knew the world of sewing and I could go to for help.
And they had good knit fabrics too.
Umm Hmm. Yes, I miss them.
Yeah, I'm sorry, proceed...
Oh no, noThis is a conversation.
Um, so I had ordered some, well, I found out about who it was that was selling it and then that kind of opened my world to custom fabric. I had just started getting into online retailers. So this was kind of like a big explosion for me. And so when I got into the customer world, another rabbit hole, I started looking at the things that were being offered and nothing was representative of black people. Like nothing. They would have fabric with mermaids on them. They would have various white people with different color hair. But no brown and black people, they would have ballerinas, same thing, Ninjas, you know, that was geared fabric geared towards kids. But none of them would be anything that would represent my daughters or you know, other little black boys. And it was like, well, you kind of knew it and it was almost like an accepted thing. Um, like we would ask for it and they would throw in one light skin did, you know?
Um, right, exactly. This person, she can, she could be Italian or she could be, you know, a very light skinned black person that's not gonna make anybody too uncomfortable.
Right, right. Just enough to where it's like, "oh, we're just going to satisfy you, but we don't want to piss off our loyal, you know, our normal loyal white customers." Exactly. And uh, what kind of was the last straw in a sense was, uh, was it last year or in 2018? Well, when Black Panther came out.
Oh yes, yes.
Now for every Disney Pixar movie that came out before Black Panther, there would be kajillions of custom fabric shops that would have fabric, you know, representative of the movie.
That's right. There's toy story stuff. There's all kinds of things that are out there that people have done in tribute or inspired by them. They try to be very careful,
very careful with words.
be "inspired by" because nobody wants to get sued.
Exactly. Um, cause I think Trolls had came out maybe a few months before and you know, just other kid movies. But when Black Panther came out, you know, I was excited. I was like, okay, everyone's going to be black panthered out. I'm gonna have everyone in their outfits. We gonna do it up.
You were excited. I had already planned my outfits and outfits for my kids and some stuff from my nephews that I sent to them in the mail so that they could wear it to the movie. You know, we showed out for that movie.
We showed out, showed all the way out, had whole movie theaters book, have it like it was. And I loved it. I absolutely loved seeing how we all came together for this movie. Loved. It was, it was just so amazing to see on social media because you saw how it reached so many different people. That's right. Um, so leading up to the movie being released, we were literally waiting for these fabric groups to come out with fabric. Um, and I believe there was one and even that one, it was lackluster to, to put it nicely. Um, it just wasn't there. And it really brought up this fact of... These fabric hosts just don't care about us. They don't care to even try to represent us. And even in their attempt to try and put out a fabric, it was more of, "oh, we just want their money".
Yes, I'm giving you this here. Here's a, here's a dark skinned Italian. Now take that and shut up.
Exactly. Here's what I'm going to give you these scraps. Take it and give me, give me your money. And it did not sit well with actually a lot of us. And I think that was that pivotal moment where we just had to take matters into our own hands. And that's when I started looking into what does it take to have a custom fabric company? Where do I get fabric from? Where do I get art from? Who is a good printer? There's so many, you know, questions that I had to look for because in addition to them not wanting to provide fabric that represents us, they also didn't want to help us.
Um, yes, that makes a lot of sense. So this, this resource hoarding that you're describing is a particular feature of capitalism. It's a particular feature of white supremacist patriarchal capitalism, and people want to protect their trade secrets. At the same time, they don't want to fully serve black folks. And so I can, I can imagine being really frustrated to say, "look, you won't do it and you don't want me to do it either. So I'm supposed to just then be satisfied with whatever you choose to give me?" And, and it's interesting because a lot of these businesses are seen as WAHM (work at home moms) right? And so they are very happy about their ability to be with their families, to sustain their families and to make good income and to meet their own particular needs. And yet when they, when it comes to our needs as black women, they don't want to take the risk that, that white people won't buy it.
I mean, this is, this is a perennial issue. I went to visit, um, New York City earlier this week and I got to be in the audience for the very first episode of the Tamron Hall Show and it, which was great. It was a lot of fun. She is very tiny .and she is. I'm not body shaming here. I am just describing. She has beautiful style, beautiful clothes, beautiful spirit. And she said straight up in the show. Like, one of the reasons that I working on this show is that, and one of the challenges that I faced is that white women would not want to watch a black woman on daytime television. And I was thinking, it's 2019 we are 400 years from the arrival of captive Africans in the US and, and what all that meant for the legacy of racism in this country. And you mean to tell me that in 2019 this is something we have to worry about. You know, and we're supposed to be content with a dark haired white girl as the illustration of quote unquote "diversity,:One of my least favorite words on earth.
Yes, [laughter] that's exactly it. And it's, it's amazing to me because the minute we tried to do something for [us, they get upset that they're not included. And it just boggles my mind how they can be so upset. Um, for instance, I had a fabric, it was called Girls' Spa and there wasn't a little white blonde girl on it. It wasn't. I Purposely meant for there not to be. And I actually got, you know, messages that it was unfair for me to exclude them from my fabric. And I'm like, how hypocritical of you, how appalling for you to even come to me with that. Because do you know how long we've been excluded purposefully,? maliciously? For thousands of years. And you're upset about this one fabric that I'm doing for me and my community?
I think that this is what happens when you're so used being centered that we in America, white folks and whiteness are used to being the default position that it's so naturalized that everything is for by and about white folks that to name something as not for white folks seems like an affront. Yes. And so I think there's a beautiful quote. I'm probably gonna botch it. I can look it up later and put it in the show notes. And it says something like, "when you're used to privilege equity feels like injustice."
Ooh. Hmm. I don't know if he botched it up, but I felt it.
But yeah. But do you see what I'm saying? It's like, you know, we have been so conditioned to see white kids on like I just walked down the two 99 flannel aisle at Joann fabrics and look at the people who are on those fabrics. Yeah, it is cute little white kids, drawings of cute little white kids. And that's what we are meant to, uh, respond to. That's what we are meant to buy and take it in as if it is ours. Um, and some people are, this happens not just in fabrics and sewing, but also people who do planner, like the planner world.
Planners stickers, stickers, people call them and stickers brown and all of that instead of saying, and this has been some really big change, I believe. I think Capitol Chic designs now has a deal with Michaels. I'm like, isn't that pretty exciting? You know, but this idea of like, what would it mean to have a black all black planner, all black sticker sheets for sale at Michaels? It would be, I think that would be pretty revolutionary.
I haven't got a chance to fully inspect the line. So, I don't know if it's um, a mix of black and non black folks. But I mean from Washi tape to papers to you know, to turn back to our topic on fabric, it is white, white, white and this is what happens when, you know, whiteness is so centered to deliberately change the conversation to do like what you have done and to say I'm having girls' Spa Day and it's black girls. Yes. Or to do what I'm doing with black women's stitch and it's called black women's stitch. It is very apparent. The logo has a black woman with black lives matter tee shirt. If you don't get it, you just won't get it,
you won't get it. And I think that's where we're at. Like I feel like if you don't get it at this point that we are taking back the conversation, we are taking matters into our own hands at this point. I had, I just don't know what to say.
and I think we don't actually have to say anything because it is not our job to fix white supremacy. We didn't build white supremacy. We don't benefit from white supremacy. That's not our job to fix.
our job is to live our best lives and to thrive as however we can, um, in this system that wasn't designed for us. And yes, my job does involve teaching. That is my, my job as a professor is to teach, but I don't have to teach every white person that happens to exist on the planet or within my purview of conversation. Um, and there's certain things that I just don't explain. Um, and so this I think is important for us as well because we are always been conditioned to like give the benefit of the doubt and you know, and that's so uneven because it is rarely if ever reciprocated, you know? So
Speaker 2: (21:35)
At Stitch please. The black women's stitch podcast we talk a lot about sewing, but if you'd like to see some of what we're discussing, we invite you to follow us on the socials on Facebook. You can find us at stitch please. And on Instagram you can find us at black women's stitch. On Instagram, you'll find a lot of great pictures and compelling social commentary. In addition, you can participate in a weekly live Instagram chat at 3:00 PM on Thursdays at eastern standard time. So follow us on the socials, Facebook, at Stitch please, and Instagram at black women's stitch and get your stitch together
in the previous segment. Queenora and I talked about what it means to center blackness in the fabric custom fabric industry. Now let's talk about what she's going to do next and take a look at her new collection.
Let's talk a little bit about what you have coming up. I've seen some fabrics, I've already as you know, claim some and say, oh that's mine. That's mine. Why, why is it not in my house yet? And you're like, [inaudible] is being manufactured, Lisa. And I'm like, what? What does that mean? I want it now so I can make my outfit.
Oh yes. So I have, um, I'm calling it the inspired African round up. If you're familiar with and Caro fabrics or African print fabric, they are generally cut and wove in wet material. And some of us would like a similar look but in stretch knit material. So that's kind of where this next round is going. I have two different designs.
I don't want to call it African print because it's not that traditional African wood, but it is inspired by it and I don't want that confusion to be there. Um, so we're going to open the round on the 17th of September and I'm going to keep it open for the preorders until October eight, um, on the website. So you would just go order your yardage. I have it printed and then it'll get shipped to me and then I'll ship it out to the clients and from the Facebook group and on my Instagram I have some excellent testers, um, who will kind of test the garment so that way they can give testimonials. So you have a little bit more assurance in what you're buying because it's already been in the hands of people of home sewers work at home, Um, seamstress who may have a business, uh, that can give actual information because they have touched the fabric. They have sewn with it, they have worked with it.
That's fantastic. And tell me a bit about, um, how many fabrics do you have this round?
So I have the Africa inspired African print and then I also have um, breastfeeding awareness. We know last month was breast breastfeeding awareness month and the last week of August, every year is black breastfeeding awareness. And originally I wanted this fabric to kind of come out in time with that week. But quality is most important to me. So I'd rather it come out later that I wanted then to give subpar quality. Yeah. Um, so this fabric is geared towards that black awareness of breastfeeding and in an attempt to normalize black breastfeeding when I was breastfeeding, my last um, daughter is so amazing how not only in the world but also in the black community. How rare it is to find other black breastfeeding mothers is, is something that needs to be normalized and hopefully my fabric can start that conversation. That's one of the things I'll always, I have always wanted with my fabric. I want it to start a conversation. I want you to look at it and say, Hey, I liked that. Or, Hey, what does that mean or let it kind of speak for you as you go out into the world. And it's a image of a black mother, one of which is wearing a head wrap, which is me normally. And it just simply says a mother's love. And to me that's what breastfeeding is, is, is my love literally pouring into my children. So that will also be available as well as the previous, uh, design that I've had out, such as the Juneteenth fabric, the girls spa and an Afro. It's a girl's, um, afro fabric.
That's fantastic. I think I might have, I think I might've bought the girls Afro fabric from you earlier this year, I believe. Is that the one that was the white background? Yes. That's one of those fabrics that I own and I only made a pair of panties because I did not want to cut a lot of it. I was like, I have to buy this fabric, I have to have it and then put in the collection and then never use it. Um, when, which I'm trying to get better at one of the, one of these days we're gonna have a discussion on the podcast. I'm quoting a member of black women's stitch who said, "don't just save it, sew it."
Oh but it's so hard.
It's really hard. I don't know. It's not really doing anybody any good, is it? If I don't, so it, but isn't it doing me some good to be able to look at it and say, look at my fabric is beautiful. I've got it from Queenora, it's significant. Um, one thing I love about the, um, the black breastfeeding fabric is that a fabric is doing exactly what you intended. And it's leading us to these conversations about,
things like the, the disproportionately negative maternal outcomes for black women, um, and need for, for better care, the work, the, and very important work that midwives and Doulas, um, by doing with black women that needs to be expanded. Like so all of these things which seem like social issues,
Actually, issues that are vital to the lives of people. And so this is why I have very little patience for people who say, oh, I don't really listen to these people. I'm just imagining if people out here that might say that, because they've never said it to me because I don't hear that kind of stuff. Like why does it have to be about black women? Why does it have to be about race? Why can't you have everybody on your fabric, which really means three white girls, one red haired, one blonde and one would through that hair. And that's it, right? That's, that's bringing politics into, into sewing. And I'm like politics, it's not.... It's not politics. I don't really care who you vote for. Well I do care who you vote for. Cause I'm that kind of person. But I mean, it's about how we treat one another and how do we recognize inequity and injustice and imbalances and how do we perpetuate those? How do we benefit from those and how do we, how do we fix what's been broken?
Especially In a culture like ours that has been erected on the brokenness of black folks, you know? So, yeah, it's just, it's, it's been a really wonderful journey and I've really loved watching your fabric thrive. And tell me, tell us a bit about the fabric bases that you will be using. I know you mentioned, um, cotton, Lycra, talk a bit more about some of the other fabrics that people can find, um, when they order from your collection.
So, uh, each of our rounds is something different, but generally as the thing, I'm the only one that's really different is our inspired African round. I'm not having it on any woven bases, which is usually your, this linens, your cut and wovens is not going to be on that at all because I want you, if you're going to have African print, I want you to have the authentic African print. So it's only gonna be available on knit stretchy fabrics and it'll our cotton lycra. We also have two weights of the double brush Poly. We also have Liverpool bamboo, which is very eco-friendly as well as a organic cotton. So those are our main, that fixed six a knit basis, which I love having that range. Um, because for me, for instance, I can buy something in Liverpool, which is one of the things that I have is going to be a, um, kind of a business casual skirt that's made in Liverpool out of the inspired African. Or you can take a completely different approach and use bamboo and make a cloth pad or um, a onesie for a baby. So having the different bases I think really expands the possibilities.
I totally agree. And I don't think I know anything about Liverpool. Is Liverpool and more like a ponte. I don't know what that is.
I love Liverpool. I, I'm so Liverpool is, it can be, it's mostly made of polyester, the blend of polyester in a spandex. But what makes it special is it has the texture of a crape so that, um, that textured bumpy, um, type of, uh, texture to it. I don't know, I said it tasted it twice, but it has that crepe texture, but it has the stretch capabilities of a knit and it's thick like of ponte.
So, but it's not smooth. Like A ponte is.
no its not. It has texture, which I love it. It works really well for me. I use a lot of Liverpool for, um, my, my workwear because it gives it just a little bit of, you know, if you take a basic black dress that black Ponty but then if you do black Liverpool where it just adds an additional dimension to it
and it's not super, super stretchy, you're saying. So it's not like almost like that elastic wave fat, that elastic fabric has that like stretches like almost to like maybe 200% of itself or 100% of itself. This stretches in closer to what, 20 or 30% maybe?
Yes. Yes. So it has just enough,
it gives you a little bit of ease in a pencil skirt for a shape like mine. Like a little bit of ease. Yeah.
Yes. And it still has that great recovery, so that way when it stretches, you know, to fit all of our lovely curves, that's where I have to worry about it warping. It bounces back.
Oh, that's fantastic. That sounds really amazing. Um, and you will have the double brush poly. That's what I really like. I love that for leggings. I find that so just to, just to like, just to rub your hands, it's just like, it's this, it's kind of like minky but not as horrible, you know, not at recalcitrant like this is very, I'm having anxiety, but I have these really nice leggings on. So I think, you know, all, we'll be right with the world eventually. But yeah. That's fantastic. Well, we're almost at the end of our time. Let me see. Do you have anything else you want to add? Anything you wanted to say that I could, um, that you want to tell people about? I will make sure to include a link to your website in the show notes as a good introduction to the custom fabric world. I think, um, this has been good. Other thoughts you might want to add?
I can't think of any
that's okay. I'll edit it out. But you know, I'm like, we know I'm not good at editing at all. It'll probably end up on the podcast. I mean, it'll probably end up on the podcast. People need to know that. Like, I am not a professional podcaster. I am someone who loves to sew and loves to talk about and center black women's girls and femmes in sewing. And that is what I do and what I don't do. Like apparently is. like incredibly high quality editing.
But you know, I think once you're like on podcast numbers 75, you're gonna let sack and say, look how far I've come. I mean, hey, we'd go with everything that we do. Um, you know, cause nowadays I feel like black women were on the rise of we're not waiting for someone else to give us an opportunity. We're gonna make our own pportunity we're going to do it ourselves And that, yes, the first, you know, week, first year, first episode, it may be a struggle, but please understand we're going to get there eventually. Eventually
Eventually, by hook or by Crook. We will get here. We will definitely get there. Well, thank you again so much. I'm talking here with Queenora and um, and, and the name of your business. Um, [inaudible] tell us about, is it finer fabrics by Queenora?
It is finer fabrics by Queenora.
Yeah. I'm like, I'm very excited. Um, I'm excited to, um, actually I got to go put my order in from my fabric now I'm talking about getting it and then I'll be so mad when it, when the time rolls around and Lisa Wolfe work doesn't have a mailbox with some fabric in it This is exactly that, that I do this all the time.
I do it too.
I'm like, oh, I really wanted that. I totally forgot to order it. I have actually put stuff in my Amazon cart with the thought of coming back to it and then two days later I'm ready to call Amazon. It was like, where's my stuff? And it's like, oh wait, I never clicked buy. So, um, yeah, I, I'm gonna need to work on that. Um, so yeah, no, really. I would get very upset. Like, I know I ordered coffee two days ago and it's like, you ain't ordered nothing,
right. Amazon looking at you like,...ah you need to try again
I see something in your cart. Usually the norm for this to work, they have to click buy. I'm like, oh, okay. My bad. So sorry. So sorry. All right.
It's all good. We all are like that. We all have our moments.
Uh, yes. All right, well thank you again so much. Thank you and thank you. Thank you. Thank you for spending the time with us today. Um, and I will talk with you soon. All right. Okay, bye. Okay, I'm so grateful that Queenora took the time to talk with us about custom fabric printing and design. This is a wonderful way to kick off BLACKTOBER, which will continue throughout the month of October. Please check out her website and check the show notes for more details. Thank you for joining us for today's episode of stitch please the black women's stitch podcast. Let's continue the conversation. Come find us on the socials. We're at black women's stitch on Instagram where we have a very active page and you can also find us on stitch please on Facebook. We also would love to hear from you, so feel free to email us at email@example.com.
There are three big ways you can support this project and one of them you're doing already by listening to the podcast, you're really helping us, so thank you for doing that. In addition, if you rate review, subscribe and share the podcast with other folks, that helps the podcast to grow and it also gives the algorithm that manage podcast information that will also help our podcast thrive. The third way to help the podcast is for those of you all who happen to have a little extra change, burning a hole in your pocket and if you don't have any plans to use it to buy your 20th or in my case 378th big four pattern, that's how many I have in my top pattern drawer, about 378 patterns. You can take that money that you would spend at the pattern sale and give it to us. We are accepting donations at our Patreon site where you can donate as little as $2 a month or you could buy us a coffee at Ko-fi.com. Small donations are greatly accepted and appreciated. So thank you for considering that. If you would like a transcript of this episode, you can find that at our website at stitchpleasepodcasts.com and we also ask that you check the show notes where we have lots of additional information and supplemental information from what we discussed in the podcast. You can find affiliate links there for the products that we like. You can find web links to the black women that we've been talking about here on the show to elevate and center their work, and you can also find the Info we've mentioned about donations as well as our email and link. All of that is available @ stitchpleasepodcast.com thanks again for joining us today. We look forward to seeing you next time. Come back and we'll help you get your stitch together.
Speaker 2: (38:21)